On 5 March, we broke the story on new data from Ukraine which revealed the death toll of Southasians fighting for Russia in the Russia-Ukraine war. The figures showed that several Southasian countries have had many more of their citizens recruited into the Russian military and killed in action than has previously been officially recognised. Sri Lankans have the highest death toll by far, with at least 275 killed in action, while the single highest number of Southasians recruited came from Nepal, with at least 852 involved with Russian forces.
How do we understand the significance of these figures, and how do we make sense of the phenomenon of at least 455 Southasians ending up dead on the frontlines of a war far from their homes? Last week, I sat down for a conversation with Saroj Pathirana, a freelance journalist and former reporter and editor for the BBC World Service’s Sinhala service, who reported the story for Himal and who has long been covering the story of Sri Lankans recruited into the Russia-Ukraine war. Here I’m bringing you an edited transcript of the conversation.
You can listen to the conversation on YouTube here. To read Saroj’s story, click the link below.
Also read: Revealed: At least 455 Southasians killed fighting for Russia in Ukraine war, Ukraine says
Raisa: Until recently, it was difficult to get a full sense of the impact of the Russo-Ukrainian War in Southasia. But we now have new data from Ukraine’s Coordination Headquarters for the Treatment of Prisoners of War, which is an official body responsible for handling prisoners of war and tracking foreign fighters, that tell us the true Southasian death toll, with 1923 Southasians recruited, and at least 455 killed fighting for Russia in this war. We put out this data in a Himal Southasian report, in partnership with the Organized Crime and Corruption Reporting Project. And today, we have with us Saroj Pathirana, who reported on this story and who's going to take us through some of this data. Thank you for being here, Saroj.
Saroj: Hi Raisa, thank you for inviting me.
Raisa: Saroj, as you know, Sri Lanka has topped the death toll among the Southasians who were killed. The figures are, I believe, 275 who were killed in action and 751 recruits. What was your reaction when you saw those figures, and did it surprise you?
Saroj: It didn’t surprise me, because I have been following this story for a long time now. So in my opinion and in the opinion of Ukraine authorities, the Coordination Headquarters as well, I think they also expected more. I mean, not only on Sri Lanka, but on many other countries because they stopped collecting this data, as they told us in September last year.
And also you wouldn’t expect the so-called enemy to collect data from the other side. So actually, I was told by the families of these soldiers, those who were missing and who were dead, that they expected a couple of hundred [deaths], or it might even go into 400, 500. I have been speaking to the families. People have been contacting me because through my YouTube channel, called Sandeshaya by Saroj, I have been covering the story from both sides, Sri Lankans recruited by Ukraine as well as Sri Lankans who are recruited by Russia. But I have to tell you that the amount of the figure recruited by Ukraine is very, very less.
Only five Sri Lankans are fighting together with Ukrainian forces at the moment. So the 275 figure is a huge figure. So many people lost their lives outside Sri Lanka fighting for somebody else’s war.
Raisa: As you said Saroj, those figures are quite high. They’re higher than what the Sri Lanka government said last year, I believe they said it was around 59 people [killed] last year. But could you also tell us that apart from Sri Lanka, what were some of the other figures for Southasians who were recruited and killed in this war?
Saroj: Yes, Raisa. Interestingly, it is Nepal. It’s citizens of Nepal who were recruited most by Russians. 852 Nepalese were recruited, but the death toll is far less than Sri Lanka. I actually don't know what the reason is, but only 115 Nepalese were killed, out of 852 recruited, whereas 751 were recruited from Sri Lanka but 275 were killed.
But I expect the figures to be much, much higher than 751 and 275 in terms of the deaths and recruits from Sri Lanka. But when it comes to Bangladesh, Bangladesh comes third in terms of deaths in Southasia, 34 deaths out of 104 recruits. And then the official figure the Bangladeshi government earlier announced, actually 40 Bangladeshis have been killed. And India’s tally in the Ukrainian data is 23 killed out of 170 recruits.
As far as I understand, I heard stories that India actively engaged with Russia and the Indian Prime Minister had a one-to-one discussion with Vladimir Putin to get many of these people repatriated. So I understand not many Indians are fighting with Russian forces. And also, five Afghans have been killed out of 18 recruited and three out of 22 Pakistani recruits have also been killed. The Pakistan government denied that there were any Pakistani nationals fighting in the conflict, but we were told by the Ukrainian authorities that there were some Pakistanis as well. Six Myanmar nationals were listed as recruits, but we have no figures of deaths. So this is how Southasia compares.
But I have to tell you one more thing, Raisa. I think Sri Lanka comes third in terms of figures for deaths all over the world [in the Russia-Ukraine war]. I think it is Uzbekistan followed by Tajikistan, followed by Sri Lanka. So the death toll among Sri Lankans is very, very high, to be honest, even in terms of global statistics as well as when we compare the statistics in Southasia.
Raisa: And Saroj, I'm also curious to know since you've been following this story for a while, how did some of these Sri Lankans end up fighting in the war? What do you know about how they are being recruited?
Saroj: There were a couple of methods actually. Some local agents, some recruitment agencies have been involved in this. But in particular, there have been accusations in social media naming a couple of very, very senior figures in the Ministry of Defense (former senior figures, not the current senior figures) as well as former senior politicians. Some ministers were named also by the recruits, by those who fled the war. By now, 150 or up to 200 Sri Lankans out of these recruits have fled the Russian military. So these people have told the police as well as Sri Lankan media that certain military figures, senior military figures have got hold of the list of pensioners, the list of retired soldiers. They were contacted and they were asked to join a Zoom meeting and there have been some recruitment drives and initially most of these people, not everyone, but most of these people were told that they would not be sent to the front-line and they were promised some driving jobs, some supportive [non-combatant] jobs.
And some people were told that you will only be sent to places where Russia has occupied Ukrainian territory. You will have to look after the bunkers, but you will not be sent to the front line. That was the case many, many people have told the police. And in fact, the police arrested a retired major general as well as a couple of other people [in connection with this recruitment drive]. Two military personnel were arrested. And now these people are released on bail. And the police investigation is also ongoing. So there has been some sort of involvement of the senior military figures and senior retired military figures in this recruitment. There have been complaints lodged with the police. And those who fled the Russian military have also testified and have given some statements to police.
So there have been a lot of fraudulent activities, as well as, we could call it human smuggling.
Raisa: And we also know that you’ve been in touch with some of these widows of the Sri Lankan soldiers who have been promised compensation in Russia. Last year, I believe, Russia did commit to providing compensation after a delegation of MPs went to Russia and raised this issue. Can you tell us a little bit about these families? And have they successfully received compensation as they were promised?
Saroj: I must say, I think Russia is committed to pay these people compensation. But there are lots of obstacles. First of all, as far as I understand, not a single widow has been paid full compensation. I have been talking to these widows every day, even since we published the Himal story as well as the OCCRP story. And there are more and more widows who are contacting me. But having said that, several people have received compensation for injuries. So one thing is when you sustain injury while fighting, you get about 3 million rubles compensation. So there are people, Sri Lankans who have received this compensation twice. That means some people have received 6 million rubles.
That is only for injuries. But when someone is killed in action, Russia pledges 13 million rubles. At the same time, the Sri Lankan government suspends the pension of these ex-servicemen if you can’t prove that this person is still alive.
You know, these widows are having a very, very difficult time. Some people are being evicted from their houses because some have been renting. Many mothers told me that they are struggling to feed their children and provide for school equipment. It is a tragedy, right?
As we speak, I understand maybe up to about 10 or 20 widows are there in Russia trying to arrange this compensation somehow. Some of them have managed to get bank accounts opened, but up until now, no one has received the full compensation of 13 million rubles. But as I said, some former servicemen, some who have completed their one year contractual agreement have received compensation for injuries.
Raisa: I'm also curious, why are Sri Lankans signing up to fight in this war and what is pushing people across Southasia to sign up to fight in this war, considering that ever more recruits are being drafted?
Saroj: It’s purely on economic terms. It’s nothing political, about being fans of Russia as such. If they could, they would go to Ukraine. But it is very difficult to join the Ukrainian military, that's why they are not joining. As we all know, in 2022, Sri Lanka declared bankruptcy and there were huge economic issues, difficulties for people. We had no gas, we had no petrol. We had many, many people who struggled to find some food for their children. So as a result, these people, when you retire, get about maybe 50,000, 60,000 rupees a month, which is about, let's say, USD 150 a month.
It’s not enough at all to feed their children because these are not very elderly people. They retire at the age of 40, 45, even sometimes 35. So they have children to look after and also they have their own parents to look after. But this 60,000 rupees, USD 150 per month is not enough at all. So they were looking for somewhere else to find a proper job with good income. When they heard that, you know, Russia is paying this much, about USD 3000 if you go to the frontline for a month, that was very lucrative, that was very attractive for them.
And Raisa, I was approached by so many Sri Lankans, by ex-police personnel, by ex-military personnel, even some people who were working in the police at the same time. Some people begged me, “Sir, sir, please let me get a visa to Russia. I will go myself. I will join the military somehow. It doesn’t matter if I am killed. At least my children would have a better future.” That was the story of many Sri Lankans.They were attracted to the compensation scheme. And then Russia pledged Russian citizenship for those who served in the military. I think after six months they were told that they would get Russian passports. In fact, some Sri Lankans, I don’t know the figures, some Sri Lankans have already got passports. I have copies of their Russian passports because people are sending me these pictures when they are looking for the whereabouts of their loved ones.
Those [Sri Lankans] who got this compensation, they do not announce it publicly. But there have been a lot of cases where these people’s salaries were taken from the ATM by other Sri Lankans. And the same thing with some of their commanders, Russian commanders. There were lots of very sad stories.
Sri Lankan soldiers themselves were involved in these fraudulent activities together with other Russians, mainly Russian commanders or other Russian fighters. I mean, they knew it was dangerous, but I don’t think they knew how dangerous it is, because it is not the same conventional war they fought in Sri Lanka. This is a new territory, especially with drones. It is much, much more dangerous.
Raisa: I imagine that it is similar for Southasia as well. As we know, Nepal, Bangladesh, Pakistan, all countries which have had economic crises and mass protests around these economic crises in recent years. Thank you so much, Saroj, for taking us through this.
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